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Reading as a Sensual Experience

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Eruname
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Posted: Wed 16 Feb , 2005 8:32 pm
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It's an interesting take on the story, Amarie. It's told from the viewpoint of the women. The book centers around the important women: Viviane (Arthur's aunt and Lady of the Lake), Ingraine, Arthur's mother, and Morgaine (Morgan Le Fay, Arthur's sister). Right now, Morgaine is only a young girl, training to be a priestess. This book has the women controlling much of the happenings and setting up the future. It's not at all the fairy tale that's well known.

So far I think it's interesting...a little tedious sometimes for me since I'm always ready to get on with the story. :P

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Abandon this fleeting world
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Then the moon and flowers
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-Ryokan

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enchantress
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Posted: Thu 17 Feb , 2005 1:52 am
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Laureanna, Imp, bear with the books... this is common. I, one of the biggest Kay sw00ners out there ;) :oops: also rebelled at first when I started reading FT...

On some points, I felt that inner rebellion up until the last book when he brings in even other stories...
Yet I am very happy I stuck with them to the end because as a whole they were beautiful. Gradual appreciation, definitely, up until absolute love :D

Estel, thats a grand idea... I will be back later with replies :P gotta run for now... sorry for the drive by posting!

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Lily Rose
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Posted: Fri 18 Feb , 2005 4:26 pm
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Hello, everyone :)
Estel has suggested that I join in on this thread, so I thought that I would make an appearance.

First of all, when I read a book, blatant sexuality is usually a huge turn off to me. For the most part, it always seems to take away from the story. But, Tigana was different. Perhaps it was because these were people that were doing anything that they could to keep their identity.

I haven't read the book in several months, so my memories are a little bit sketchy, but the characters that spoke to me the most were Catriana and Dianora.

I admired Catriana's fiery spirit, and her willingness to give away her body for the greater good. First, to keep Devin from overhearing information that she thought he shouldn't know, and then to dispose of Anghiar.

Dianora speaks to me for completely different reasons. Her story makes me so sad...It is one that I can relate to. Her personality is much different from mine. She is highly intelligent and forceful, of which I am neither. However, I can relate to being in a situation that I know is detrimental, and feeling torn to what I should do about it. She knew that Brandin was evil, and in one way, wanted him dead, but on the other hand was very much in love with him. And then losing him was too much for her. As getting away from my situation was very nearly too much for me.

There are bits and pieces of each character that I can relate to, but there are many details that I have forgotten, since it has been so long since my last reading. I will have to reread it, and then perhaps I will have a more complete answer.

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Teherin
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Posted: Tue 01 Mar , 2005 11:26 pm
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ooohhh .. wow another place I can feel at home :)

I adore GGK :) Its quite strange cos my usual leaning is towards female fantasy authors .. but he is styupendous. I adore his character development and the heart-rending emotion they bring from me ... Tigana is my fave I must say but Song for Arbonne is pretty good too :) Not to mention the Fionovar trilogy :)

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Aglanor
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Posted: Tue 08 Mar , 2005 10:02 pm
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I should reeeeally get my ass to a bookstore and buy more books by him...:neutral:


FT is slightly my favorite over Tigana and I think the difference will increase once I buy "The Wandering Fire" - the one book of the trilogy I don't have; and my favorite book. The irony.

But Tigana was still great, except for some minor details. Can't remember the names much, but the one sorcerer was pretty much too monologuing to be interesting. The storyline of Dianora, though: Awesome. :)



Yeah, definitely get my ass to a bookstore...:drool:

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"The moon reflects in her eyes,
And tears fall down like stars.
Her gentle kiss goodnight;
Her dagger stuck in my heart.
My love broken and betrayed
And my eyes are closed tight,
As death now does us part."


A Rune engraved on my heart...


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Di of Long Cleeve
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Posted: Wed 16 Mar , 2005 11:10 pm
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Fionavar swooner here! :)

The Fionavar Tapestry is the only fantasy series I have ever been able to get into besides LOTR. It was like reading LOTR with sex. :D

But, IMO, Guy Gavriel Kay is too good a writer to be merely copying Tolkien, and his world is too Celtic and Arthurian to remind me that much of Middle-earth ... although obviously he pays tribute to many of Tolkien's ideas, names and indeed themes. But he puts his own original spin on it all, and he's a terrific storyteller.

Melodramatic? Well, yes, in places. But I still loved the Fionavar series, and found it very moving.

Although how on earth Kim and Dave could possibly want to get back to Toronto after all that high drama and apocalyptic warfare is quite beyond me. :D

I liked what Estel said, about the similarities and differences between GGK and Tolkien. Tolkien is all about 'music and sight', whereas Kay is a very earthy, sensual writer. There is a lot of spirituality in Fionavar, but it's a much more pagan and earthy spirituality than in Middle-earth.

And Kay writes well about sex. :) And I find all of his characters, both the human ones and the non-human ones, very believable.

Jennifer's rape had quite an effect on me: it haunted me for days. Kay really makes you feel the icy cold and terror and claustrophobia of Starkadh ... but he never portrays the horror in a gratuitous way. Now that's good writing, in my book.

I must try his other books at some point. :)

But there is some sex in Tolkien too. :cool: There is certainly quite a lot of sex in The Silmarillion: not explicit sex, and it's all rather dark and traumatic (Turin's incest with Niniel, Eol the Dark Elf and his twisted relationship with Aredhel, and so on) but it's there.

Now, try this on for a sensuous effect. It's one of my favourite passages from FOTR, when Frodo is listening to the Elvish music in the Hall of Fire at Rivendell:

At first the beauty of the melodies and of the interwoven words in elven-tongues, even though he understood them little, held him in a spell, as soon as he began to attend to them. Almost it seemed that the words took shape, and visions of far lands and bright things that he had never yet imagined opened out before him; and the firelit hall became like a golden mist above seas of foam that sighed upon the margins of the world. Then the enchantment became more and more dreamlike, until he felt that an endless river of swelling gold and silver was flowing over him, too multitudinous for its pattern to be comprehended; it became part of the throbbing air about him, and it drenched and drowned him ...

I do find that a gorgeous - and sensuous (as opposed to sensual) - piece of writing.

And it describes perfectly the effect that reading Tolkien has on me, the reader .... he takes me away to mysterious worlds with infinite horizons, where seas sigh on never-ending shores. A rapturous experience indeed. :)

:)

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Amarie
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Posted: Tue 22 Mar , 2005 6:55 am
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LilyRoseTook wrote:
admired Catriana's fiery spirit, and her willingness to give away her body for the greater good. First, to keep Devin from overhearing information that she thought he shouldn't know, and then to dispose of Anghiar.

Dianora speaks to me for completely different reasons. Her story makes me so sad...It is one that I can relate to.
I was talking to Maeglin about fantasy characters we most relate to the other day, and I wondered if we related to any particular GGK character, personality-wise, experience-wise, etc. Which would you say you relate to and why?

Di, I love that quote too. Any of Tolkien's description on the elves and their music is masterfully done. Rivendell is beautifully woven, but I was even more moved by the description of Lothlorien, particularly Cerin Amroth.

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Di of Long Cleeve
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Posted: Wed 23 Mar , 2005 12:48 am
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Lothlorien is my very favourite part of LOTR, Amarie. My very favourite part. The Lorien chapters are the ones I will re-read the most. They have a virtually contemplative, meditative effect on me.

Siiiigh.

As for GGK characters I relate to ... Jennifer is the one I like the most and the one whom I most closely identify with. Because she suffers the most, because her suffering isolates her from even those who love her most, because she is, in many respects, an 'outsider'. These are things I relate to. I've never suffered anything as traumatic as Jennifer has, I hasten to add!!!! Being raped by a Dark Lord ... yikes.

(And then turning out to be Guinevere!!! ... stone the ruddy crows. :D :) )

Jennifer is Fionavar's Frodo, in a way. And like Frodo, she has to leave in the end, to enter another dimension. Frodo sails West for the Blessed Isle, Jennifer goes 'beyond the summer stars'.

Frodo is not only my favourite character in LOTR, there are aspects of him I relate to quite strongly ... the orphan, the outsider, the one who goes on the darkest road, the one whose experiences mark him forever ... not that all of this relates to me, you understand, in terms of personal experience ... it's ASPECTS of a fictional character which will trigger something in you, or speak to you.

:)

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"Frodo undertook his quest out of love - to save the world he knew from disaster at his own expense, if he could ... " Letter no. 246

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Aglanor
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 12:02 pm
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I relate to Paul a bit and to Kevin a bit. Kind of a blend-in between the two, really. Both have a sort of distance from others. Paul mostly in Summer Tree, Kevin in Wandering Fire. Both don't quite fit in, and are not foreground characters. They're important, but not loud like Davor and Kim were (I liked them, but they had a demanding presence).

_________________

"The moon reflects in her eyes,
And tears fall down like stars.
Her gentle kiss goodnight;
Her dagger stuck in my heart.
My love broken and betrayed
And my eyes are closed tight,
As death now does us part."


A Rune engraved on my heart...


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Maeglin
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Posted: Tue 29 Mar , 2005 4:55 pm
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I read the books, and must say they are a nice piece of work and have made me think a lot.

But unlike most of you, after finishing (as especially book 3 spoiled it for me) it, i was happy i was done with it. I hope i dont spoil anyones fun with my words, or something like that as i dont mean to :oops:

Kay is without a doubt a great writer, and Rwhen , who was so generous and sweet to send me those books did me a great favor as I did enjoy especially the first two books a lot.

Like Aglanor I related to Paul the most. I think back then when i talked to Rwhen and Amarie they said that one was the closest to my personality aswel. Yet I never really came to like him or identify myself with him.

And davor was interesting but not my kind of guy and Jenniver annoyed me to bits. Only the part where she got raped made me so sad and it kept me sad for the whole evening and night. I stopped reading for a while after that. As I once did with a similar situation in the works of Goodkind.

I had also a weak moment to when Kevin died. Apart from that I found the story overal very interesting. But the whole arthur, lancelot thing made me skip a lot of pages and roll my eyes a lot. That was the biggest disapointment for me in almost any book tbh. Also the whole end battle felt for me like a copy of Tolkiens works but still with some interest aspects of its own. :)

And where i was caught into Tolkiens work, his elves, his places, his myth, his idea about magic yet not mentioning it for real, his end battle and the battle between evil and good... i never felt that for real with Kay.

It were the conversations, and especially dramatic scenes that got to me. :)

So can't say I am a Kay lover, but I consider it a good experience for having read his books.

*hides from any of the people present who wish him harm now* ;)

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enchantress
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Posted: Wed 30 Mar , 2005 5:26 am
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Aw Maeglin :P I dont wish you harm. Not everyone loves Kay... as long as you appreciate his artistry on some points I forgive you :P:D
but.. I really think you should give another book a try. "Fionavar" is kind of peculiar in Kay's repertoire...its a decidedly high fantasy, Tolkienesque (on purpose) work...while his style of conversations and drama (that you like) holds in his other books, the plots are different from this one, and there is a greater variety of characters. Some of his other books actually lean more towards historical fiction than pure high fantasy. You might like those better. May I suggest giving "Tigana", "Lions of Al-Rassan" or "Sarantiine Mosaic" a try? The first two are single books, the third is a duology.

Amarie, fascinating question.
When I read the books I was at an emotional time in my life and identified curiously with a very peripheral figure, that of Leyse of the Swan Mark. I had a whole phase of resonating with the Lady of Shallot myth, so I suppose that was only natural.
Its interesting, that when I think of Kay's works in terms of how I relate to the characters, there are NONE that I feel truly approximate ME. Yet I find them all very fascinating. Single characters sometimes have strong key qualities that I may identify with. Sometimes its a variation on the theme of that particular quality. For example, I identified with Styliane's depth of emotion, though whereas hatred was what she could not let go, for me it tends to be love and passion that I get carried away with. The two extremes sort of work on the same substrate though, I think.
I related to Dianora in the way she loved. I related to Jehane in her professional endeavours and her independence, though I found her much more emotionally cool than I could ever be.
In Fionavar, besides Leyse, I think I was most moved by Ruana... and the whole Pareiko storyline...
I really *wanted to* identify with Kasia, from the Sarantine Mosaic... going with the whole Slavic thing we share... but again, it didnt work. Yet I found her very interesting still.
There are no women in Kay that I feel completely mirrorred in... maybe that is why I like his work so much...because it presents things "other" and different than me on many levels. I think I can identify more with Galadriel from Tolkien's world than with any of the Kay women, on the whole.
I think I see myself most in the feelings and relationships portrayed in Kay... I often get that deep tingle of relating to an emotion, or to a relationship between some characters that I see as somehow reminiscent of one in my life.

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Maeglin
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Posted: Wed 30 Mar , 2005 7:36 am
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I think that is an excellent idea Enchantres, i will ask Amarie to bring me another book of Kay. It might give me a whole new experience and maybe think as fondly of the writer as you all. :)

Even after reading a lot more since i read my first fantasy book (Lord of the rings) there is only one character I mostly can relate to. *points at his name*.. not in all points as his betrayal is something I can't even think of but most of his other emotions (good and bad) I relate to a lot. Not one writer made me think of a character as much as him, even though the lines spend on him in the silmarillion are not that much.

There are many characters i WISH i related to, but i dont have all their good attitudes, which sucks ;)

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moonfariegalena
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Posted: Wed 30 Mar , 2005 1:21 pm
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just thought I`d pop my head in here :D

I read nothing from Kay :oops: but reading is for me a breathtakingly sensual experience to the point of wondering if I`m just a sucker for anything written or do I really have a nack for choosing the books that I absolutely love....
I can`t remember a book I actually did not want to read again, and reading over certain parts has become a ritual in it self...everything form Memoirs of a Geisha, Marillier`s Sevenwaters trilogy, Bradley`s Avalon series, her even better Darkover series......

I`m currently deep into Moon under her feet, by C.Kinstler
do I see a pattern here :scratch
;)

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I've been making a list of the things they don't teach you at school. They don't teach you how to love somebody. They don't teach you how to be rich or how to be poor. They don't teach you how to know what's going on in someone else's mind. They don't teach you what to say to someone who's dying. They don't teach you anything worth knowing.

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Aglanor
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Posted: Wed 30 Mar , 2005 5:52 pm
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Maeg: You can borrow Tigana if you want. It's a lot deeper than Fionavar, and has some amazing stuff happening...:D

Just got Lions of Al-Rassan for my birthday. Starting tonight. ;)

_________________

"The moon reflects in her eyes,
And tears fall down like stars.
Her gentle kiss goodnight;
Her dagger stuck in my heart.
My love broken and betrayed
And my eyes are closed tight,
As death now does us part."


A Rune engraved on my heart...


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Aglanor
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Posted: Fri 08 Apr , 2005 11:52 am
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Damn Kay. He did it again.



SPOILERS, sort of:
Chapter Three, when Jehaine and Ammar talk to Jehaines father, and he says he'll do the childbirth for the king again, vecause of the Oath to preserve all life, tears started coming in my eyes again. And a few pages later, when Jehaine's mother talks to him, and he's practising speech again (without his tongue). I just get waaay too sentimental with Kay.


The "consecration" of the new castlewing was a real "what the fuck??" moment as well. :Q


Once again: Awesome storywriting. :D:D

_________________

"The moon reflects in her eyes,
And tears fall down like stars.
Her gentle kiss goodnight;
Her dagger stuck in my heart.
My love broken and betrayed
And my eyes are closed tight,
As death now does us part."


A Rune engraved on my heart...


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Eruname
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Posted: Mon 25 Apr , 2005 11:16 pm
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I picked up Tigana in the library today. If I really love the book I suppose I could go and buy it one day. But right now I feel like reading for free! :P

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Abandon this fleeting world
abandon yourself.
Then the moon and flowers
will guide you along the way.

-Ryokan

http://wanderingthroughmiddleearth.blogspot.com/


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enchantress
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Posted: Sat 30 Apr , 2005 7:40 am
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Ag, Im so glad you're liking it...

*SPOILERS*
That part with Ishak practising talking... like I posted in the TORC Lions thread... this quote is still among the topmost "love scenes" I've ever read:

"...'Eyyia?' said her husband, and Eliane bet Danel heard the mangling of her name as music.

'You sound like a marsh frog," she said, moving to stand before his chair.

By the flickering light she saw him smile.

'Where have you been,' she asked. 'My dear. I've needed you so much.'.

'Eyyia,' he tried again, and stood up. His eyes were black hollows. They would always be hollows.

He opened his arms and she moved into the space they made in the world, and laying her head against his chest, she permitted herself the almost unimaginable luxury of grief..."


:bawl: :oops: re-pasting that actually made me tear up again :Q
Damn Kay...damn that man's hold on my emotions!!!!!!! :P:D :oops:

/*END SPOILERS*

Eru, I hope you will like it :)... Tigana is great...and YAY for libraries!! Thats how I read... I love the public libraries (although I wish they had more copies and/or longer lending periods/more renewal options :P) and thats precisely what I do. I read library books and when I ascertain I love the book I save up to buy it. Im too broke to indulge in spontaneous buying of unread books most of the time...

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Eruname
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Posted: Sun 01 May , 2005 6:45 pm
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I normally go to the bookstore and hope I end up liking the book. It's very rare that I don't. But I've been spending probably a bit too much lately and realized I could read it for free so why not? I definately agree about the reading periods. I have three weeks and I know I will not be finishing it that quickly. I'll have to recheck it and hope I can finish it during that time.

I'm finding Tigana hard to get into. I feel like I've just been thrown into the story and haven't received much background. I'm not really sure what's happening. The only character I feel I know anything about right now is Devin. I think the book is starting to pick up a bit though. :)

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Abandon this fleeting world
abandon yourself.
Then the moon and flowers
will guide you along the way.

-Ryokan

http://wanderingthroughmiddleearth.blogspot.com/


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Eruname
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Posted: Tue 24 May , 2005 3:11 pm
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Well, I guess it's time for an update on what I think about Tigana. Sorry for replying to myself, but it has been quite a while since my last post. ;)

I'm to the point where Alessan et cross the border of Tigana. I'm finding the story very good. Tigana may have been hard to get into and hard to understand for a while, but soon many things become clear and so interesting! This is an awesome fantasy book and I really want to continue reading Kay's works. I like how his books aren't cheesy as some other fantasy books can be.

One part I don't get: Alienor and her night with Devin. I don't get the point of it and I don't get what Devin learned from that night. Can anyone shed any light on this for me?

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Abandon this fleeting world
abandon yourself.
Then the moon and flowers
will guide you along the way.

-Ryokan

http://wanderingthroughmiddleearth.blogspot.com/


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Lily Rose
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Posted: Wed 25 May , 2005 5:36 am
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I think that Devin's night with Alienor was an experience that made him grow up...I have to poke my nose back into it to be a bit more specific, though.
I am glad that you like it. Tigana is definitely one of my favorite books.

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I don't have faith in faith
I don't believe in belief
You can call me faithless
I still cling to hope
And I believe in love
And that's faith enough for me


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