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Ellie, what exactly does surrendering (transferring) the domain name entail?

Does money have to exchange hands in order for TORC to continue with the tolkienonline url? Or does it simply mean that Jon and Ted are forbidden to use the name?

Well, if J&T refused to comply with the Estate's demand, probably the Estate will file a complaint under the UDRP of ICANN requesting transfer of the domain name to the Estate. The Estate will almost certainly win.

From the letter, I gather the Estate has zero interest in licensing the trademarked name to J&T. That is another way to handle it, simply give a license to use the name.

J&T will have to ask their registrar to transfer the domain name to the Estate, or simply give the domain name up. I assume that is what they will do, and in fairly short order too.

I wonder how much revenue they'll lose by removing the offending items from The Marketplace.

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(iii) provide an accounting of sale to date, if any, of all infringing products

Could the Estate demand a share (or all) of the profits made on these products?

Eruname wrote:

TORN doesn't do a takeoff on the JRRT logo so that's why they'd be okay I guess.

TORN is also officially sponsored by Sideshow/WETA, so they might fall under the category of the movie rights sold.

Ellienor, would Ted and Jon have to officially sell back the domain name to the Estate (or pay)? Or would they just give it up and agree to stop using it?

Thanks for all the explanation, ellie!

ellienor wrote:

This is a trademark issue, not a copyright issue. Think about use of the word, COCA COLA. You and your friends can discuss Coca Cola ad nauseam without any problem, because you are not using it "commercially," i.e., to sell something or make yourselves money. Same with Tolkien, the One Ring, Hobbits, etc.

However, when you start using these words to sell something, i.e., a commercial use, that's a problem.

But they aren't commercial - I doubt that they make a big profit out of their mugs and pins.

And LOL, yes that's a scary letter. (But also something that feels like the aforementioned "divine retribution" to me. )
However, I've heard that companies make them scary on purpose to frighten the receiver into submission - maybe a sign they don't really have much to prove their accusations?

Dunno - maybe the easiest would be for Jonathan and Ted to re-name the site into "fuck-a-certain-author's-estate" or so, and produce some papers saying they never made a profit from the merchandise.

As to the logo looking "similar" - well, that could be a long trial to determine whether it can be mixed up or not, I think.

Frelga wrote:

I have to say, I really am irked by the Estate's bullying a small website that has done nothing but helped them generate profit. I do understand the legal reasoning, I just don't like it.

Don't know about "small" website, but I completely agree!

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Dunno - maybe the easiest would be for Jonathan and Ted to re-name the site into "fuck-a-certain-author's-estate" or so.

Not that they would, of course...

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As to the logo looking "similar" - well, that could be a long trial to determine whether it can be mixed up or not, I think.

Too true. Which means that the side with more money to pay for lawyers will probably win, and we can guess who that is.

As someone said, "Heaven forbid you should be involved in a lawsuit in which you are right."

Prim, this is OT, but has anyone actually asked for movie rights to Sil? Just curious.

Another question for our honorable lawyers - is there a legal reason why Ted asked not to discuss the letter on TORC?

Frelga wrote:

is there a legal reason why Ted asked not to discuss the letter on TORC?

Maybe because the lawyers could be monitoring the site? I sure wouldn't want anyone talking if I was going through that. Though of course I probably wouldn't have published the letter or let anyone know what's going on until it was all over.

Eruname wrote:

I probably wouldn't have published the letter or let anyone know what's going on until it was all over.

They're likely hoping that someone will contact them privately with advice.

You don't have to make a profit to be "commercial." I think it is less about TORC being a danger to the Estate in particular and more about a general policy of being careful of who you let use your name. There is such a thing as "tarnishing" a brand and "diluting" your brand that you have to be careful of. It's basically called "policing" a mark, and although it looks like the big bad nasty meanie coming down on you, really, you can lose rights and damage your brand if you don't take care of it.

Think about real property. Intellectual property is akin to real property. If a landowner lets someone build a road over their property without permission and use it, eventually that use will mature into a right to use because the owner never objected. The owner may not mind your use but has to be careful not to lose their rights, so even though they may appear to you to be mean and evil when they ask you not to use their land, they have to take care of their interests.

So there you go. This was all about mugs and T shirts.
The estate could probably give a rats arse about the domain name initially, but since they want to clean up on the selling of Tolkien items, then they may as well go for the domain name as well and distance themselves from another fan site. Especially now that the free press for the movies is no longer needed.

*sigh*



Maybe they could just go back to using theonering.com? The address still gets you to TORC, but I don't think you can sign into the messageboard with that one.

Amrunelen wrote:

Maybe they could just go back to using theonering.com? The address still gets you to TORC, but I don't think you can sign into the messageboard with that one.

I don't think so. . . TORN's already got the rights to that one.

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but has anyone actually asked for movie rights to Sil? Just curious.

I know it was not directed at me, but I think the answer is yes, many times. I would think you could get a good lot of movies out of that book. Maybe Prim knows a bit more and can shed some light, but from my understanding many people have asked and its always been turned down.

TORN is so evil.

TORN used to be a really neat site, and now it has fallen apart.

Has it really? With no film news, I never go there these days. Dish!

They have the rights to it, but the address still takes you to TORC? Weird...

Exactly, Prim. I used to visit it a lot, and the Green Books were wonderful. But the news is just about other films now, and some gossip. Occassionally they have Tolkien happening, which is what kept me going there. But I've stopped even checking. Like I said, it kind of fell apart.

How did I miss that the official letter is up? It certainly is scary looking, especially the demands. I guess it makes more sense now, but wow. I wonder what they'll do, especially about the logo.

If I hadn't visited TORN while I was in Toronto, I never woulda learned about the IMAX marathon or John Howe signing, so I'll always keep up with their front page. But yes, on the slow days, the only news they have to report are theatrical and DVD releases of films with LOTR actors in them. Then again, they also reported that the university my brother attends will be having a fantasy course based on the works of Tolkien, C.S. Lewis and others next semester. That worked out nicely!




*E*

Hi *E. Haven't seen you in a long while! If you've been away - welcome back.