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The Paths of the Dead -- the Fallen from TORC

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 5:25 pm
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Aspirin is a trademark in Germany. :P

I love this stuff.

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ellienor
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 5:31 pm
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Since Prim isn't :tired: yet, I'll keep inflicting this on her..... :D

Aspirin is no longer a trademark in the U.S. I forgot to mention that trademarks, if people begin to use them as generic to the product that they are associated with, can lose their status as a trademark and just become "generic."

I.e., "aspirin" for acetylsalicylic acid. Everyone uses "aspirin" as the name for the compound acetylsalicylic acid so now aspirin is generic. Google has to watch out for this also...how many times do you say, I'll Google it to find out? Companies have to "police" the use of their TMs carefully to try to prevent this sort of thing.


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Wilma
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 5:36 pm
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Could it be because the TORC collects funds using the Tolkein name? People pay for premiere membership. I always thought it was sticky having people pay for something on a fan site that is not officially connected with the estate.

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yovargas
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 5:37 pm
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Q-tips.
White-out.
Xerox.
Band-aids.
Vaseline (I think).

Off the top of my head. Did they all lose their TMs too? Pretty interesting (for boring legal talk, that is ;)).


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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 5:39 pm
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They sure do. The company where my husband works polices this very carefully, and they have thousands of products, some of which are in very common use in labs and are mentioned in hundreds of research papers every year.

They spend a lot of time trying to remind people to use the trademark as an adjective, not a noun—once it gets into common use as a noun, I understand, it's begun to creep away. Which is why commercials say "Band-Aid brand adhesive strips" and "Kleenex brand facial tissues."

I heard that Bayer lost their U.S. trademark on "Aspirin" when they couldn't defend it during WWI—being a German company.

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Eruname
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 6:02 pm
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I highly doubt that it was the vinyard/feces thing that caused this.
ellienor wrote:
Like I said before such unauthorized users can do things that the Estate wouldn't approve of, and since people don't necessarily know that, the Estate winds up being "tarnished" i.e., people think badly of them for acts they are not responsible for. For example, people who didn't know that TORC was NOT associated with the Estate, after Ted's feces throwing fit, would think that this was the way that the Estate wanted things!
There's this J&T have though (bolding mine):
Quote:
COPYRIGHT 1999-2005 - Tolkien Online - The One Ring
Tolkien Online is administered by everyday fans of J.R.R. Tolkien and Lord of the Rings. Tolkien Online is not affiliated in any way with the Tolkien Estate or Tolkien Enterprises. Certain materials such as books, films, articles and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law.
Certain design elements of this webpage are copyright John Howe, and can be found here.
Isn't that a disclaimer? Does this help them out at all?
Wilma wrote:
Could it be because the TORC collects funds using the Tolkein name? People pay for premiere membership. I always thought it was sticky having people pay for something on a fan site that is not officially connected with the estate.
I just don't get how Premiere memberships can get the site in trouble as they're basically donations. It costs a lot of money to run TORC and J&T need help. The members chose to help. The money goes directly towards the cost of running the site and not into J&T's pocket. Though maybe it's Jonathan's company Enthusiast Inc. which could be messing things up? Maybe mixing that business with TORC is what's causing the problem?

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Wilma
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 6:27 pm
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I can see how that would get sticky. Alot of the Frascape stuff I am involved in concerning money, it has to made very very clear that they are donations.

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"I'm modest, I'll keep my knickers on and die!" - My sister Grace commenting on Bear Gryllis on an episode of Oprah :rofl:

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The Tennis Ball Kid
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 7:13 pm
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Ted wrote:
RE: Tolkien Online Merchandise

We write as U.S. counsel to the heirs and successors in interest of Professor J.R.R. Tolkien (the "Estate"), with regard to your website www.tolkienonline.com. It has come to the Estate's attention that you are selling merchandise through your website that incorporates the Estates valuable trademarks, without authorization by the Estate. In light of this infringement of the Estate's rights, we demand that you immediately stop selling such merchandise and transfer the www.tolkienonline.com domain name to the Estate.

The Estate hold valid and subsisting federal trademark registrations for the mark TOLKIEN in connection with various products and services, as well as federal registrations for the Tolkien monogram. In addition, the Estate holds common law trademark rights in both marks. As shown in the attached examples, you currently offer for sale numerous unauthorized products incorporating these trademarks. This constitutes blatant trademark infringements under federal and state law.

Additionally, your use of the trade name "Tolkien Online" and the domain name www.tolkienonline.com in connection with the above infringing activities constitutes an independent trademark infringement, and a violation of the Anit-Cybersquatting Prevention Act, respectively. Further, your bad faith registration and use of the domain name constitutes a violation of the Uniform Dispute Resolution Policy of Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers, to which all".com" domains registrants subscribe as a condition to registration.

Accordingly, we hereby demand on behalf of our client that you immediately (i) cease and desist all further manufacture, distribution and sale of the infringing products; (ii) recall and or destroy all copies of the infringing products in your possession or control; (iii) provide an accounting of sale to date, if any, of all infringing products; (iv) certify in writing to the undersigned that you will not manufacture, distribute, sell, or license others to manufacture, distribute, or sell the infringing product in the future; (v) cease and desist all further use of the trade name "Tolkien Online"; and (vi) arrange for the transfer of the domain name www.tolkienonline.com to the Estate.

Unless you immediately comply with the above-stated demands and advice the undersigned in writing within Seven (7) business days of the date hereof of your intention to do the same, the Estate will have no choice but to pursue all appropriate legal remedies against you, including but not limited to seeking injunctive relief and damages. The forgoing is written without waiver of or prejudice of the rights of our client, all of which are expressly reserved.

The forgoing is written without waiver of the Estate's rights, all of which are expressly reserved.
Well....

ttbk

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Eruname
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 7:21 pm
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Ah...so it was the TORC t-shirts, mugs, etc.

While the emblem may look like the JRRT logo, it's not the same. Isn't this the same sort of thing as the other colas making their cans red to try to emulate Coca-Cola?

Many people know my feelings about TORC, but I think the Tolkien Estate people are being big jerks right now.

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yovargas
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 7:21 pm
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:Q

Good lord that sounds serious.

I didn't know TORC sold any products. :confused:


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Iavas_Saar
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 7:23 pm
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:Q

Actually, perhaps the most surprising thing is that I haven't even bothered going over to TORC to check this out for myself.

Last edited by Iavas_Saar on Tue 10 May , 2005 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Eruname
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 7:24 pm
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I can't find the link yov...they may have taken down. They had something where you could buy all sorts of t-shirts, baseball caps, mousepads, coffee mugs, etc with the TORC emblem on it. Iavas has a TORC t-shirt. I have a TORC pin that I won in the sig contest.

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The Tennis Ball Kid
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 7:24 pm
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Yov, TORC Pin.



Hmm... :neutral:


ttbk

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Wilma
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 7:28 pm
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Oh dear I figured it was something along those lines. I had forgotten about the merchandise. What about TORN and it's merchandise though? I am kind of wishing TORC kept it's old name. But I had heard TORN were uh... quite nasty.

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Itoshiki Sensei from Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei. Avatar by: sparklessence

"There is no such thing as coincidence in this world, only hitsuzen." - Yuko Ichihara and Kimihiro Watanuki - xxxHolic

"I'm modest, I'll keep my knickers on and die!" - My sister Grace commenting on Bear Gryllis on an episode of Oprah :rofl:

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Eruname
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 7:31 pm
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TORN doesn't do a takeoff on the JRRT logo so that's why they'd be okay I guess.

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ellienor
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 7:32 pm
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I told you it was under the theory of trademark infringement! I did learn something in law school after all. :D :D The Estate's cease and desist letter is even scarier than the one we use!

*cuts and pastes letter for future use for scary cease and desist letters*


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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 7:36 pm
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<contemplates image of attorneys feeding off each other to devise ever more scary cease and desist letters>

<squeaks faintly>

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Frelga
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 7:43 pm
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TH, sorry about mis-quoting you.

So... now what will they have to do? Complying with the scary letter seems the cheapest option.

I have to say, I really am irked by the Estate's bullying a small website that has done nothing but helped them generate profit. I do understand the legal reasoning, I just don't like it.

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 8:01 pm
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Well, if profits were their primary motivation, they would have sold off movie rights to the Sil by now.

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Ara-anna
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 8:07 pm
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Well Mr. Morgan Freeman just won his case and his name back from the net. Courts ruled in his favor. I hope the link works.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/morgan_freeman

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