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During the discussion in the abortion thread started by tolkienpurist, the "statement" came up several times that people are unlikely to adopt outside of their own race.

It struck me as odd, and as I think about the people I know who have adopted, it hasn't held true (in my own experience).

The white lady who teaches horseback riding to my daughter has adopted two Hispanic sisters.

A white couple whose kids attend school with my kids adopted two Korean boys.. both partially deaf.

A friend of my husband's and his wife (both white) have adopted one white daughter, one African-American daughter, three African-American sons, and one Chinese daughter (with Down syndrome).

In fact, the only people I can think of who adopted from their own racial group are a white family down the street who adopted two white boys (the mom said it was important to her to look like they were a family... fair enough) and a black couple from my church who adopted a black child.

Of course, if people adopted within their own race and haven't discussed the adoption, I would be unlikely to know that these same-race adoptions had occurred. Adoption doesn't seem like something people tend to hide, though, anymore...

So... does anyone know? Is adopting outside your race becoming more common? Or is my own experience an aberration?

Do you think it's a good idea? Do the children raised in families who look different from them have issues with identity? There is at least one Native American tribe here in Arizona which forbids Native American children from being adopted by families who are not Native American. Could one infer that that policy is in place to preserve the racial identity of the tribes' children?

Would it be better for families to adopt only within their racial group, or does this not make a bit of difference?

(I already have a pretty strong opinion on this, but I'm going to see what you guys say without swaying the discussion from the very first!)

An extremely tough question, and thus a good one.

It comes down to which is thought more important: the welfare of the child, or the continuance of the culture it comes from. But within those simple-looking choices are worlds of subtle differences...is a financially secure home necessarily better than one less secure but more culturally receptive? Is the need of a particular First Nation to keep its language and culture alive the same as that of, say, the African-American community?

I have a good friend, a single mom, whose child came from China at age 18 months or so. Is the daughter's life better than it would have been in the orphanage there? Almost certainly. But now she wants to adopt another child, an older boy from India...and I am ambivalent.

When we thought of adoption, we thought of an Afghan girl... I have several adopted children from different races in my classes - but then again, the environnement in Geneva is so specific, with a rate of 40% of foreigners, and all the international folks from the UN that nobody even asks....

My own sister is a Métis native. And yes, it was a good idea.

Anthriel,

Thanks for bringing up an interesting topic. Having raised someone of another race myself, I think I can contribute to the discussion. She turned out wonderfuly.

Like you, most recent adoptions I know of personally have been of children of other races.

I have no time to discuss this today, so I'll return later.

Hm ... I'm of two races, and grew up immersed in a third (my aunt by marriage and my sister-in-law). Just what sort of kid should I have adopted, had I gone the route of adoption? One who needed adopting, I suppose.

Whom you are raised by does not guarantee what culture you will experience or be cut off from. My mother's mother refused to pass on any of her Tlingit culture, verbally, anyway, because she wanted my mother to be white only, and thus not subject to the predjudice she endured.

In the UK it's just about forbidden by the prevalent social worker culture. Even mixed race couples have problems especially if they reveal they have not experienced any discrimination. The argument used (which I can sympathise with) is that it is essential for the child to connect with their community, something that it is judged that parents of another race can't provide. Apart from the fact that a care home as an alternative is hardly doing that either, I also think it smacks of a politically correct apartheid policy.

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is that it is essential for the child to connect with their community

Which of course begs the question of what a "community" is. People with a certain color skin (match the Pantone, please). People of a certain ethnic origin? And that's before you get into mixed-race situations, as laureanna notes--should a child with one American and one Chinese biological parent only be adopted by a couple with one American and one Chinese parent? Hell, why not check the damn DNA...

My friend who has adopted her two (partially deaf) Korean sons has contacted the local Korean community here, and tried to become involved in it... she has had a Korean women come to her home on a regular basis, to educate the boys about their cultural heritage. She even asked the woman to visit the boys' classrooms to talk about Korean history and heritage, which the woman was happy to do.

She found, however, that many Koreans she encountered were unhappy with her family's composition. She shared that she was really quite surprised at first... but that she sort of understands it now. There are people in that community who will always be uncomfortable seeing those boys walk in behind that blue-eyed blonde!

Not that she isn't thrilled with her boys, and that she isn't an amazing mother. They are so well loved!

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Even mixed race couples have problems especially if they reveal they have not experienced any discrimination

I don't understand this, Tosh. Would their problems adopting a child outside of their race be lessened if they had experienced discrimination personally?

I know, I know. The theory is that then they are able to understand and warn their child what might happen to them. Don't ask me to defend this nonsense though.

Anthriel wrote:

My friend who has adopted her two (partially deaf) Korean sons has contacted the local Korean community here, and tried to become involved in it... she has had a Korean women come to her home on a regular basis, to educate the boys about their cultural heritage.

Similarly, a Jewish family in my son's class adopted a little girl from China, and they are making an effort to infuse the child's environment with both traditions. I don't know what the girl's life would have been like in China. She is certainly thriving where she is now.

Another white family I know has adopted a girl who is also white but looks nothing like either of her adoptive parents. They are dark-haired and dark-eyed and she is like little Eowyn. My son adores her.

That brings up another point - if concern is the preservation of culture, can we really stop with just the race? Should an Italian-American family be allowed to adopt a child of Norwegian descent? Is a Japanese family a more suitable candidate to adopt a Vietnamese baby than a White Anglo-Saxon one? As Axordil said, that's not even touching mixed-race people and marriages, like our East European Jewish friend who married a Japanese/French woman. A child of what race should they be allowed to adopt, if they choose to do so? What if their son marries a Hispanic woman when he grows up, would that rule him out as a potential adopter?

Axordil wrote:

It comes down to which is thought more important: the welfare of the child, or the continuance of the culture it comes from.

In an ideal world, we would have both - there would be enough loving homes for every infant in the world. In the world-as-it-is, I suppose the best we can do is to concentrate on the child's welfare and make an effort to find potential adoptive parents of similar background to the child if reasonably practical.

As a parent, should something terrible happen to me and my family so that my son's only choice was to hope for adoption I know I would not care what color or culture or flavor the adopting family was as long as they loved him and provided him with the life's necessities.

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Another white family I know has adopted a girl who is also white but looks nothing like either of her adoptive parents.

This makes me laugh, but only because my children look so disalike (and they are obviously so close in age) that I have had many casual questions as to whether they are adopted. I even had one woman ask, with great familiarity, whether my children had the same father!

Not that it's not a good question... they don't look ANYTHING alike... but just that people are so comfortable asking what is really a very personal question!

So it is not only families of adoption who have these issues...

Frelga wrote:

...like our East European Jewish friend who married a Japanese/French woman. A child of what race should they be allowed to adopt, if they choose to do so? What if their son marries a Hispanic woman when he grows up, would that rule him out as a potential adopter?

What a great question! As "race" lines are crossed by intermarriage, these questions are sure to come up.

Racial restrictions on adoption- while understandable, from a certain viewpoint- can be rather sad. There was an article in our paper a while back about a woman who fostered a Native American child. She and the boy truly bonded, and still consider each other family. Unfortunately, she was not allowed to adopt him, and he was eventually sent out of her home. He was heartbroken... there were pictures of several tearful letters he sent to Child Protective Services, and pictures of letters from her as well, begging to let them be together. It was not allowed.

Unfortunately, he fell in with bad company, and one night, while driving under the influence of alcohol, killed another person. She visits him several times a week in jail... it just makes me wonder what his life would have been like had she been allowed to care for him as they both would have liked.

Well I am all for it adoption outside of ones own ethnic group. I think slowly things are changing. Idvlles comments in the other thread really helped renew my faith in humanity.

Concerning experience with discrimination, considering the adoptive parents want to adopt a child of another ethnic group, I am sure they have considered how they would deal with discrimination if it comes up. I am sure they understand it's in the best intrests of the child. Also I sometimes think it's where this family intends to live, that can be a factor too. Some communities are very open to that sort of thing and it wouldn't really phase them.

Some communities may unfortunately be very closed and not be open to learning about other cultures. When I was growing up I was one of the very few visible minorities let alone black people. I must say it was not the greatest.

I am not saying that people were racist, sure there was some, but for the most part it was ignorance and an unwillingness to learn and change their pre conceived notions.

With that I had 2 parents who were of the same background as me who loved me. I think the most important thing is they loved me. But it did help that there was an understanding on how to deal with it too. But I as I said earlier, I feel most adoptive parents prepare for this sort of hurdle.

Also though there is the whole idea of cultural background too that usually comes with being adopted, which sometimes could be highlighted if you are a visible minority adoptied by a different family. I knew of a Canadian Native artist who grew up adopted by a white family and they were not too open with his adoption. He would always ask questions as to why he looked different from them and they would ignore or skirt around the issue. He ended up becoming homeless and an alchoholic. While cleaning his life up as an adult he decided to discover his culture on his own and has become a succesful artist of native art.

Then there is another case where a Quebecois family adopted a chilld from Haiti and he fits in perfectly in this all white town which basically has one common culture, with no problems. People there are not phased since he does not have an accent so to them it means he is obviously 'one of us'.
I think each case is very different and I think though the most important thing is openess and honesty.

RoseMorninStar wrote:

Anthriel, what a sad story. That doesn't speak to well for the state of our society does it? *sigh*

No, I think it really doesn't. I do understand a tribe wanting to keep their children within their culture, but what good was ultimately served by pulling this boy away from a woman who loved him, but who happened to be the "wrong" race?

What a waste.

Wilma wrote:

With that I had 2 parents who were of the same background as me who loved me. I think the most important thing is they loved me. But it did help that there was an understanding on how to deal with it too.

I agree with both of these points, Wilma! I think that there would be issues with a white parent in a white community not being able to understand how an African-American child would feel, not matter how much they tried to understand. But I still think it's better for a kid to have loving parents than not!

I live in the home city of an adoption agency that really pioneered overseas adoptions back in the 1950s. Our city has many families with white parents who have children from Korea, China, India, and other places. It doesn't get a second glance here. Some of the kids are adults now, and so from time to time you meet an obviously thoroughly Asian person with a name like "Schmidt." The families who adopt through that agency have regular picnic reunions. The lady who founded the agency died fairly recently at an advanced age and just had a new elementary school named after her. It's part of the civic culture here, and from what I see it works out well.

Sometimes adopting childrend from another race/ethnic group/nationality is the only option for parents.

Where I live, the number of children that are available for adoption is extremely low. Therefore, a couple who wants to adopt a child must look elsewhere. This is not an easy process as there are often restrictions imposed by the foreign governments on the number of children that can be adopted. To give you an example, a good friend of mine adopted a boy from Colombia three years ago. She and her husband were very lucky because a month after the adoption was made, the government of Colombia decided that they will not allow any more adoption to happen by foreigners. My friend now waits for this decision to change (she has received news that it will change soon) because she wants to adopt a second child from Colombia.

Primula - That is a great community! The people there were very open-minded and unprejudiced not only for their time (the 50s) but even for today. Here you don't see many Asian or African children being adopted - people are not ready for this, I guess.

I have two questions that I hope will not derail this thread.

When we talk about adopting outside of one's race, we talk about, by and large, Western Caucasians adopting racial minorities, or Western racial minorities adopting racial minorities. (If this is incorrect, please correct me.) With this in mind...

(1) I am a fully integrated, assimilated, English-speaking-only, born and bred American person of Asian descent. As between a white person and me, should that person be given preference to adopt white children, if we are otherwise similarly situated? As between the same white person and me, should I be given preference to adopt Asian children, despite my lack of knowledge of all things Asian? (feel free to answer without being PC; since I'm voluntarily putting myself into the hypothetical, don't feel you have to tiptoe around it)

I have a hunch that many people (in general, I have no idea about this board) would say that the white person should receive preference for white children, and that I should receive preference for Asian children. I have to admit that this would seem strange to me. As regards a white child, I think that no preference should be given one way or another, because both of us are equally familiar with the culture, and would be (under the hypothetical) equally situated to provide the child with a good start in life. Since the white child is by definition a member of the majority culture, s/he would be unlikely to struggle with a "positive sense of racial identity", I would hypothesize, if raised by a non-white - at least one who has the greatest respect for Caucasians, their culture, and their achievements.

OTOH, I think that unless the potential Asian adoptive child was someone who really struggled with his/her sense of identity, and really would only be comfortable with a parent of the same race, again, neither of us should receive preference. If the white person was more familiar with (or even interested in) Asian culture than I am, I would say they should receive preference.

On the other hand, what if there were more white babies to be adopted than there actually are (i.e. a surplus that could not be satisfied by their home nations), and the middle-class and rich of non-Western cultures decided to adopt them, and raise them within that culture? Would people see any difference between this, and between the current situation, where our middle class and rich adopt babies from those countries?

When adopting outside of one's race comes up, it is frequently to discuss white --> everything else. It bothers me for some reason I can't quite express right now, except perhaps through asking the above questions.

My second point:
Why does there need to be a willingness to expose a child to their culture of birth? If the child wants it, I'd say, absolutely. But if not, is it still equally important? As an Asian child born in America to two Asian parents, I actively did not want anything to do with Asian culture growing up, because I was insistent that my identity was as an unhyphenated American (I am still insistent on that point. I was born here, raised here, and I am as American as anyone else; I don't need a hyphen to qualify it.) My parents did expose me to some things, but by and large, respected my wishes. Now, I wish I had asked them to expose me to more, because I am more interested in Indian culture, which in some loose, undefined sense I think might be a part of my heritage. However, I'm glad they didn't force me, because it would have made me feel very negative about it. Now, as an adult, I can explore on my own time, and decide what role I want Indian identity to have in my life, if any. However, as a kid, the most important thing to me was to have a sense of my identity as an American, and not to dilute that by feeling "different" because of being part of a different culture, since almost everyone I knew was white or black.

I wonder if the same would be doubly true for adopted children dealing with identity crises. What if they WANT a streamlined identity, and don't want to deal with some sort of different culture they never knew, just because biological parents they never knew were a part of it? Open question. I only have a few adopted friends (mostly Asian, adopted by whites) and they all just wanted to be a part of the majority culture. Little to no interest in their Asian roots, either.

tolkienpurist wrote:

I have two questions that I hope will not derail this thread.

I, personally, like an organic flow of ideas in these threads, even if they lead off of the intended track a bit. It always seems just as interesting to me…

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When we talk about adopting outside of one's race, we talk about, by and large, Western Caucasians adopting racial minorities, or Western racial minorities adopting racial minorities. (If this is incorrect, please correct me.) With this in mind...

I’m not sure it’s incorrect; that does seem to be the prevalent pattern that I’ve personally observed. However, I did not mean to limit discussion in any way when I broached this subject. I really was talking about ANY adoption outside ANY race.

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(1) I am a fully integrated, assimilated, English-speaking-only, born and bred American person of Asian descent. As between a white person and me, should that person be given preference to adopt white children, if we are otherwise similarly situated? As between the same white person and me, should I be given preference to adopt Asian children, despite my lack of knowledge of all things Asian? (feel free to answer without being PC; since I'm voluntarily putting myself into the hypothetical, don't feel you have to tiptoe around it)

I appreciate your parenthetical comment! As a Caucasian whose heritage is very diverse and long since blended in the melting pot of America, I am painfully aware of how easy it would be for me to quite cluelessly type hurtful things.

I have worked with an adoption agency here in Phoenix (purely in a fund-raising capacity; I didn’t meet any of the parents involved) and it, at least, does not give “preference” to any race for the parents of any particular baby. It is an open adoption format, and all the prospective parents are profiled and then put into a database; the people choosing to place their children for adoption get to choose the adoptive parents for their child. From then on there is a relationship, carefully defined, between adoptive parents and birth parents. It works pretty well.

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OTOH, I think that unless the potential Asian adoptive child was someone who really struggled with his/her sense of identity, and really would only be comfortable with a parent of the same race, again, neither of us should receive preference. If the white person was more familiar with (or even interested in) Asian culture than I am, I would say they should receive preference.

The problem is, of course, that when there are infants being adopted, no one knows what they will struggle with. The adoptive parents in the only adoption agency I know of have access to counselors for many years after the adoption; hopefully the parents could receive some useful guidance as these issues come up.

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On the other hand, what if there were more white babies to be adopted than there actually are (i.e. a surplus that could not be satisfied by their home nations), and the middle-class and rich of non-Western cultures decided to adopt them, and raise them within that culture? Would people see any difference between this, and between the current situation, where our middle class and rich adopt babies from those countries?

An interesting question. I would not like my own child reared by certain cultures… especially if that child were female. (So many cultures in the world, and a few here in the good old USA, are horrible to girls!) If the birth parents had some choice where the child went, hopefully some of that tension would be addressed.

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When adopting outside of one's race comes up, it is frequently to discuss white --> everything else. It bothers me for some reason I can't quite express right now, except perhaps through asking the above questions.

The majority of couples I know who want to adopt are white. I apologize if my sharing only my lopsided experiences has made you uncomfortable.

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My second point:
Why does there need to be a willingness to expose a child to their culture of birth? If the child wants it, I'd say, absolutely. But if not, is it still equally important?

Here is an opportunity for me to be unwittingly offensive; please accept my apologies in advance if I manage to mangle this.

It seems to me that your experience as a first generation American would be somewhat different than that of an adopted child from an obviously different race. When you got off the bus and walked home each day, no matter how “different” you were made to feel at school, you walked into a home where everyone looked like you. You knew that having answers to any questions you had about the customs of your ancestors was just a matter of asking mom or dad.

I think it may be much more isolating to be the only one around who looks different, to have no idea about your genetic heritage and associated culture, and to always just feel… different. But I really don’t know.

I do know that I am pretty impressed with the parents who work so hard to offer their adoptive children a chance to learn about the culture of their birth parents. I really think it is a labor of love for these adoptive parents… it takes a lot of time and exposes the parents to yet another forum where they can be judged poorly for their decision to adopt outside their race (as with my friend who met with negative reactions in the Korean community). It would be very much easier to ignore the fact that her kids are Korean by birth and just go about her day. She puts a lot of emotion and effort into trying to help her kids feel proud of who they are… on all levels!

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I wonder if the same would be doubly true for adopted children dealing with identity crises. What if they WANT a streamlined identity, and don't want to deal with some sort of different culture they never knew, just because biological parents they never knew were a part of it? Open question.

I would hope that the adoptive parents could adapt to the needs of their children. If the kids truly weren’t interested in knowing the culture of their birth parents, I would think that would mean a lot less work for the adoptive parents!

I do not have too much time as I am on a public computer and I only have an hour (my computer is gone for upgrades).

TP I think the American culture concerning 'roots' or too extraordinarily different things.

Canadian do not need to put a hyphen with anything. (I personally think the hyphen thing is a load of crap and I tell people do not use it on me.)

Canada is a very, multicultural society, there is no melting pot (Canada really does not like that), since it seems to imply assimilation. In general Canada as a whole is against assimilation and being a Candaian citizen and embracing your cultural heritage are in no ways contradictory. The Canadian attitude is more a mosaic rather then anything else. I think a part of this is because Canada depends heavily on imigration (50% of Canadians are foreign born) and the government probably fears that assimilation would deter people from coming here. Particularly sinc ethe weather does not do much to recomend it.

Canada even boasts the largest Carribean event outside the Carribean where West indian people from all over the world come to it and Toronto actaully depends on it economically for it's summer tuorism season. Also even though it is a West Indian tradition, people from everywhere are encouraged to attend. Celebrating your culture (or roots) with those not of it is a very very Canadian thing.

As a Canadian I really want to get involved in my culture more then I am now since I feel I am losing a connection. I think Prims comment on diluting really highlighted how I feel about that sort of thing. I never ever felt my culture was being forced on me, and I embraced it gladly, it gave me a huge sense of belonging and support.

Anthy also made a very good point about when you come home, your parents look like you. It can be quite different when they don't. On top of that being adopted may lead the adoptee of not feeling like they belong within a community. They may feel like they belong with their family, but not a part of the community as a whole. If a parent decides to teach their child about their culture or heritage it could help give a child a larger sense of belonging beyond their familial group. I think Anthy's friend is doing a marvelous thing. I wish though that the Korean community was more open to helping her out though. I have heard though that in some Aisian cultures adoption is not viewed in a positive light I will say though I have several Vietnamese friends and they shared their culture with me immensely. I once went to a Chinese New Year event with my sister, one of my vietnamese friends an exchange student from China, my sis another guest, and my self were the only non Aision people at the whole thing!!!! There were at least 100 people there. By the end of the night they made my sis and I feel very very comfortable.