board77

The Last Homely Site on the Web

Ship of Dreams, Ship of Nightmares - Titanic: April 15, 1912

Post Reply   Page 6 of 7  [ 121 posts ]
Jump to page « 13 4 5 6 7 »
Author Message
Jude
Post subject: Re: Ship of Dreams, Ship of Nightmares - Titanic: April 15, 1912
Posted: Thu 22 Jun , 2023 7:41 pm
Aspiring to heresy
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 19691
Joined: Wed 23 Feb , 2005 6:54 pm
Location: Canada
 
The Titanic has claimed 5 more victims :(

_________________

[ img ]

Melkor and Ungoliant in need of some relationship counselling.


Top
Profile Quote
Frelga
Post subject: Re: Ship of Dreams, Ship of Nightmares - Titanic: April 15, 1912
Posted: Thu 22 Jun , 2023 8:11 pm
A green apple painted red
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 4634
Joined: Thu 17 Mar , 2005 9:11 pm
Location: Out on the banks
 
It's not the fault of the Titanic that extremely wealthy people chose to entertain themselves by getting on a homemade vessel whose owner declared his contempt for safety precautions.

Can't even call it an accident. This is "standing on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are bastards!'" to quote Pratchett.

I would have liked to see them rescued, but realistically, the quick crunch was always the most plausible scenario.

_________________

GNU Terry Pratchett


Top
Profile Quote
Dave_LF
Post subject: Re: Ship of Dreams, Ship of Nightmares - Titanic: April 15, 1912
Posted: Thu 22 Jun , 2023 8:28 pm
You are hearing me talk
Offline
 
Posts: 2956
Joined: Mon 28 Feb , 2005 8:14 am
Location: Great Lakes
 
Classical engineering focuses hard on getting things right the first time. Measure twice, cut once. Software engineering reversed that paradigm. Compared to measuring its correctness, cutting software is practically free! Not sure if something will work? Just punch it in, compile, and find out! Going through that mental paradigm shift, and then carrying it back from software to the real world of consequences, is what makes tech bros so dangerous.


Top
Profile Quote
Jude
Post subject: Re: Ship of Dreams, Ship of Nightmares - Titanic: April 15, 1912
Posted: Thu 22 Jun , 2023 9:20 pm
Aspiring to heresy
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 19691
Joined: Wed 23 Feb , 2005 6:54 pm
Location: Canada
 
I suppose what happened is preferable to being stuck waiting for the end. It’s certainly what I would have preferred.

_________________

[ img ]

Melkor and Ungoliant in need of some relationship counselling.


Top
Profile Quote
LalaithUrwen
Post subject: Re: Ship of Dreams, Ship of Nightmares - Titanic: April 15, 1912
Posted: Thu 22 Jun , 2023 11:38 pm
The Grey Amaretto as Supermega-awesome Proud Heretic Girl
Offline
 
Posts: 21787
Joined: Thu 24 Feb , 2005 3:46 pm
 
I would have preferred that, too. I'm guessing it was over before they even really knew what was happening. Regardless of their foolishness and everything else, it is still sad and their families will be grieving their loss.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

_________________

[ img ]


Top
Profile Quote
Jude
Post subject: Re: Ship of Dreams, Ship of Nightmares - Titanic: April 15, 1912
Posted: Thu 22 Jun , 2023 11:41 pm
Aspiring to heresy
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 19691
Joined: Wed 23 Feb , 2005 6:54 pm
Location: Canada
 
Also, am I the only one that's mentally drawing parallels between OceanGate and my project manager, especially in light of Dave's observations? Not to make light of it or anything...

_________________

[ img ]

Melkor and Ungoliant in need of some relationship counselling.


Top
Profile Quote
nienna
Post subject: Re: Ship of Dreams, Ship of Nightmares - Titanic: April 15, 1912
Posted: Fri 23 Jun , 2023 7:19 am
The best things in life are not things
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 1975
Joined: Thu 02 Jul , 2009 3:32 pm
Location: west of West
 

_________________

There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes


Top
Profile Quote
Jude
Post subject: Re: Ship of Dreams, Ship of Nightmares - Titanic: April 15, 1912
Posted: Fri 23 Jun , 2023 11:42 am
Aspiring to heresy
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 19691
Joined: Wed 23 Feb , 2005 6:54 pm
Location: Canada
 
I don't think that's a coincidence - having a family connection to the Titanic would naturally draw someone to get involved with it.

_________________

[ img ]

Melkor and Ungoliant in need of some relationship counselling.


Top
Profile Quote
LalaithUrwen
Post subject: Re: Ship of Dreams, Ship of Nightmares - Titanic: April 15, 1912
Posted: Fri 23 Jun , 2023 1:45 pm
The Grey Amaretto as Supermega-awesome Proud Heretic Girl
Offline
 
Posts: 21787
Joined: Thu 24 Feb , 2005 3:46 pm
 
Jude wrote:
Also, am I the only one that's mentally drawing parallels between OceanGate and my project manager, especially in light of Dave's observations? Not to make light of it or anything...
No, you're right. The people who should be in charge of the details of these types of things should be people who plan for worst case scenarios. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

_________________

[ img ]


Top
Profile Quote
Frelga
Post subject: Re: Ship of Dreams, Ship of Nightmares - Titanic: April 15, 1912
Posted: Fri 23 Jun , 2023 4:42 pm
A green apple painted red
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 4634
Joined: Thu 17 Mar , 2005 9:11 pm
Location: Out on the banks
 
And don't say things like "they tell you not to mix carbon and titanium, but I did." Which the late Stockton Rush is on record as saying.

At least, as Dave said, software usually fails in non-lethal ways.

_________________

GNU Terry Pratchett


Top
Profile Quote
Jude
Post subject: Re: Ship of Dreams, Ship of Nightmares - Titanic: April 15, 1912
Posted: Mon 26 Jun , 2023 3:17 pm
Aspiring to heresy
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 19691
Joined: Wed 23 Feb , 2005 6:54 pm
Location: Canada
 
More food for thought:

3 other submersibles visiting Titanic almost suffered the same fate as Titan
Quote:
The loss of the submersible Titan during its expedition to the Titanic has raised questions about the vessel's safety, but Titan is only the latest craft to find itself in peril at the site of the world's most famous shipwreck.

Of the 10 submersibles in the world that can reach depths of 4,000 metres or greater, the Titan, owned by exploration company OceanGate Expeditions, was the only one that wasn't certified by any regulatory body, and OceanGate had been warned by both industry experts and one of its own senior employees that the vessel might be unsafe.

Still, no matter how reliable the vehicle, diving to such extreme ocean depths is always risky. At least three previous expeditions to the Titanic had close calls that could have cost the crews their lives.
Did anyone see the 1985 IMAX film Titanica? Here's something that happened during the filming:
Quote:
Two Russian Mir submersibles made 17 dives over the course of the expedition, and on the last one they hit a literal snag.

MacInnis's submersible had set down in the wheelhouse, at the very spot where captain Edward Smith may have stood when the Titanic sank beneath the waves. When the crew finished filming and tried to lift off the platform, they realized they were caught on something.

After a moment of panic and a string of expletives, they called in the second Mir submersible for assistance.

The pilot of that second vessel was able to see that their left landing skid had slipped under a mass of wires, possibly phone cables that had once led into the wheelhouse, and give them directions on how to manoeuvre their way out of the tangle.

"We had that second pilot, that second sub, self-rescue capability," said MacInnis in an interview with Times Radio, "so we were very fortunate."
And then, James Cameron while getting footage for the 1997 blockbuster:
Quote:
Another film shoot at the shipwreck led to a near-death experience for director James Cameron.

Cameron made several trips down to the wreckage in fall 1995 while filming for his 1997 blockbuster Titanic, and he was on his third dive with submersible pilot Dr. Anatoly Sagalevich and a Russian engineer when they encountered an unexpected sandstorm on the ocean floor.

As Cameron recalls in the 2009 biography The Futurist, by author Rebecca Keegan, "Anatoly said, 'Oh, no,' something you never want to hear a pilot say, and we locked eyes for a second."

Fighting against the strong currents had sapped the submersible's power supply, and they were almost out of batteries.

Immediately, they aborted the dive, but, at 25 metres above the seabed, it was as though they had hit a ceiling. The submersible stopped rising and sank back to the ocean floor.
Quote:
They sat for a half-hour in total darkness and near-freezing temperatures to give their battery a rest before trying again, only to be stopped for a second time at 25 metres.

Unbeknownst to them, they were caught in a downdraft caused by the flow of the current over the shipwreck. In a stroke of good luck, however, each time the stream pushed them back down it also blew them a bit further away from Titanic.

On their third attempt, they held their breath when they hit 25 metres but continued to rise, breaking the surface five hours later.
And then this:
Quote:
Despite his fear of water, Michael Guillen couldn't pass up the opportunity to be the first reporter in 88 years to visit the Titanic when he was invited to dive there in 2000.

Submersible pilot Viktor Nischeta took Guillen and his dive partner on a one-hour tour of the wreckage, but, as the submersible crossed the debris field between the ship's front section and the stern, Guillen realized they were speeding up. Like Cameron's crew, they were caught in one of the deep sea's unpredictable currents.

"A split-second later, [our submersible] slammed into the Titanic's propeller," Guillen recounts in his book Believing is Seeing. "I felt the shock of the collision; shards of reddish, rusty debris showered down on our submersible, obscuring my view through the porthole."

The little submersible was jammed tight in the gigantic propeller's housing. As Nischeta rocked the vessel back and forth like a car bogged down in mud, Guillen thought to himself: "This is how it's going to end for you."

After almost an hour in tense silence, there was a sudden change in the way Mir felt under their feet. The growling of the engine ceased, and the submersible felt weightless again.

"OK?" Guillen asked tentatively.

Nischeta grinned. "No problem!"

_________________

[ img ]

Melkor and Ungoliant in need of some relationship counselling.


Top
Profile Quote
LalaithUrwen
Post subject: Re: Ship of Dreams, Ship of Nightmares - Titanic: April 15, 1912
Posted: Mon 26 Jun , 2023 3:23 pm
The Grey Amaretto as Supermega-awesome Proud Heretic Girl
Offline
 
Posts: 21787
Joined: Thu 24 Feb , 2005 3:46 pm
 
That is terrifying.

It's almost as if people aren't supposed to be there.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

_________________

[ img ]


Top
Profile Quote
yovargas
Post subject: Re: Ship of Dreams, Ship of Nightmares - Titanic: April 15, 1912
Posted: Mon 26 Jun , 2023 4:17 pm
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 14779
Joined: Thu 24 Feb , 2005 12:11 pm
 
It's wild to think that going to the bottom of the ocean might actually be even more dangerous then going to outer space!


Top
Profile Quote
Dave_LF
Post subject: Re: Ship of Dreams, Ship of Nightmares - Titanic: April 15, 1912
Posted: Mon 26 Jun , 2023 5:04 pm
You are hearing me talk
Offline
 
Posts: 2956
Joined: Mon 28 Feb , 2005 8:14 am
Location: Great Lakes
 
yovargas wrote: *  Mon 26 Jun , 2023 4:17 pm
It's wild to think that going to the bottom of the ocean might actually be even more dangerous then going to outer space!
Someone pointed out that a spaceship has to deal with a pressure differential of a bit less than 1 atmosphere. A sub visiting the Titanic has to withstand 400.


Top
Profile Quote
Jude
Post subject: Re: Ship of Dreams, Ship of Nightmares - Titanic: April 15, 1912
Posted: Mon 26 Jun , 2023 6:02 pm
Aspiring to heresy
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 19691
Joined: Wed 23 Feb , 2005 6:54 pm
Location: Canada
 
Just had a random thought: what if the original Titanic disaster had happened today? All the passengers in the lifeboats would have captured the actual sinking on their smartphones, and a large number of them would be live-tweeting and/or live-instagramming the whole thing.

_________________

[ img ]

Melkor and Ungoliant in need of some relationship counselling.


Top
Profile Quote
MariaHobbit
Post subject: Re: Ship of Dreams, Ship of Nightmares - Titanic: April 15, 1912
Posted: Wed 28 Jun , 2023 2:08 pm
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 8044
Joined: Thu 03 Feb , 2005 2:39 pm
Location: MO
 
Dave_LF wrote: *  Mon 26 Jun , 2023 5:04 pm
yovargas wrote: *  Mon 26 Jun , 2023 4:17 pm
It's wild to think that going to the bottom of the ocean might actually be even more dangerous then going to outer space!
Someone pointed out that a spaceship has to deal with a pressure differential of a bit less than 1 atmosphere. A sub visiting the Titanic has to withstand 400.
It's a completely opposite engineering problem, though. As a complete guess, I think it would be easier to brace against pressure pushing inwards vs pressure pushing outwards.


Top
Profile Quote
Frelga
Post subject: Re: Ship of Dreams, Ship of Nightmares - Titanic: April 15, 1912
Posted: Thu 06 Jul , 2023 7:16 am
A green apple painted red
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 4634
Joined: Thu 17 Mar , 2005 9:11 pm
Location: Out on the banks
 
With everything already posted here about the built-in hazards of the submersible, there is a truly unbelievable amount of more coming out.

The Titan Submersible Was “an Accident Waiting to Happen”

Not to start a conspiracy theory, but are we sure that Rush was on board? Because the story sounds like a plot of a thriller where a rich man fakes his death and runs away. Out of everything, the part that he rejected every bit of sensible advice and went on board anyway is the one I find hardest to believe.

_________________

GNU Terry Pratchett


Top
Profile Quote
Jude
Post subject: Re: Ship of Dreams, Ship of Nightmares - Titanic: April 15, 1912
Posted: Thu 06 Jul , 2023 12:57 pm
Aspiring to heresy
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 19691
Joined: Wed 23 Feb , 2005 6:54 pm
Location: Canada
 
You underestimate the power of denial.

_________________

[ img ]

Melkor and Ungoliant in need of some relationship counselling.


Top
Profile Quote
Jude
Post subject: Re: Ship of Dreams, Ship of Nightmares - Titanic: April 15, 1912
Posted: Mon 10 Jul , 2023 11:00 pm
Aspiring to heresy
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 19691
Joined: Wed 23 Feb , 2005 6:54 pm
Location: Canada
 
More, because I just can't stop thinking about this...

Did anyone read the waiver that the passengers are required to sign? It's pretty dire, but there was no refund if they refused to sign it. The question is: were they shown the waiver before they signed up and handed over their money? If not, there's a strong case for it being signed under duress, and therefore invalid. At least that's the argument I would make if I were a lawyer representing the victims' families in the lawsuits that are 100% guaranteed to follow shortly.

_________________

[ img ]

Melkor and Ungoliant in need of some relationship counselling.


Top
Profile Quote
Frelga
Post subject: Re: Ship of Dreams, Ship of Nightmares - Titanic: April 15, 1912
Posted: Sat 29 Jul , 2023 4:04 am
A green apple painted red
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 4634
Joined: Thu 17 Mar , 2005 9:11 pm
Location: Out on the banks
 
What do they think it's going to float on, sulfuric acid? The hubris of these people and the fact that they are not hiding in a deep hole, ashamed to show their faces.

Assuming NYP didn't make it up.
[ attachment ]
Screenshot_20230728-194254.jpg (95.83 KiB) Viewed 36413 times

_________________

GNU Terry Pratchett


Top
Profile Quote
Display: Sort by: Direction:
Post Reply   Page 6 of 7  [ 121 posts ]
Return to “The Symposium” | Jump to page « 13 4 5 6 7 »
Jump to: