board77

My wife works in a bookstore and I'd been hoping she could sneak me a few chapter titles or something before Saturday, but it turns out that delivery isn't even happening until Thursday night and the boxes aren't going to be opened before midnight on Saturday. And now I learn that the entire book is online. I'll just have to hope that my will to resist internet spoilers holds out for a few more days.

elfshadow wrote:

To me, and to millions of other people, half of the real magic of Harry Potter is the moments that you wait before the clock strikes midnight on the day the book is released. I will never read the spoilers, even if they are supposedly "out"--but a part of me is really disappointed that someone has leaked these pages. IMO it's disrespectful to JK Rowling and disrespectful to the fans who wait with anticipation for so long, and then find out that somehow some idiot with access to the books has photocopied some of the pages illicitly just to feel smug.

I feel the exact opposite (though I haven't at this point looked for or read the leaked version, and I have chosen not to read partial spoilers.) IMO, the only "real magic" of an undifferentiated release date is the sound of Scholastic's bank account cha-chinging. I honestly don't care whether I'm reading HP at the same time as everyone else or no one else. I just want to know how the series ends as soon as humanly possible, whether that's sooner or later for me than for anyone else. I believe that ethics require me to pay for a copy of the book as soon as I am able to do so. But I do not see it as a sign of disrespect if I am able to learn the content of the book sooner; nor do I see it as a sign of respect to wait until an official release date assigned by a publisher.

To me the magic of Harry Potter or any other series is wholly internal. It is my reaction to the world that JKR (or another author) has created. That's completely independent of the release date hype, which is created by the publisher for the sole purpose of increasing sales.

Sure, it's about money for the folks who are making the money. But it's probably not about money for the millions of other folks who are actually spending it. While the publisher may have had some part in deciding the release date, I'm sure that JKR had her part in it as well. If she'd wanted to release the book sooner, she would have done that--it's HER book after all, regardless of who the multiple publishers are (because it's not just published by the same company). And JKR has enough money already, so it's not about the money for her. Besides, the HP franchise is so popular right now--and since this is the LAST book of the series--I imagine that they'll make close to the same amount of money whenever they decide to publish it. The people who buy multiple copies for one family, for example, will do this because they all want to read the book as soon as they get it, not because there's a certain release date.

I guess I just honestly don't see how it's so difficult to wait four more days for the book to come out. But then, to me, waiting for something makes it better when the time comes.

hal, I know that no one is forcing me or anyone else to read the spoilers. I take great care to avoid places or posts that I know will have spoilers in them. I just question why anyone would want to steal the book to post the spoilers to begin with. It all seems so underhanded. WHY is it so hard to wait four days? Do you really think you'll die before Saturday?

Alatar, I know that unfortunately there was a good chance of one getting out. But you're right, it does suck--at least, it does to me.


ETA: And it's not just me who feels this way. Here is a note (though a couple of months old) from JK Rowling herself concerning spoilers.

I like having one release date (I wish that somehow the books could be released at the same time around the world...darn Australians have a huge jump on us!). I think it's the right thing to do regarding this book.

I also don't understand why people go out of their way to spoil others or want to get pictures of the pages online. It's silly. I have people on my LJ friends list who have had to take all the HP communities they are members of off thier friends list and have also made it where only their friends can comment on their journals for fear of being spoiled. It's sad they have to do that.

...

Crucifer, can you please explain why you wish us to adhere to this rule when the title of the thread states, "you'd better believe spoilers".

Hal, it does sound like you've got an advanced version of the book.

Nel, or TP, I do find myself in agreement---I guess I find myself somewhat annoyed with the publishers and even the author dictating that my experience be completely "unspoiled" before I put my hands on the book.

Well, in that case lets start an Unspoiled thread and leave you lot to it?

ellienor wrote:

Crucifer, can you please explain why you wish us to adhere to this rule when the title of the thread states, "you'd better believe spoilers".

Well; there's always the fact that board77 could be sued into nonexistence over it.

On what grounds, DaveLF?

I'm a patent, trademark, and copyright attorney. Reposting actual pages from the book here would be copyright infringement, but I guess I don't see what grounds there are for a suit for mere discussion of the book. You'll note that the publisher required contracts with booksellers, because prereleasing books violates no law, but may violate a contract.

Another attorney here with background in IP, seconding ellie's question. Discussing mere spoilers leaked widely over the Internet by a third party could cause b77 to be "sued into nonexistence"? Which part of the US Copyright Act, or other international copyright law, allows such suits? I hate this type of misinformation about the copyright laws, because it leaves everyone confused and thinking that copyright is far broader than it is.

And yes, by all means, start an unspoiled thread rather than demanding that people who have read the spoilers or the full book remain silent in a spoiler thread.

The news articles on the subject all say that Scholastic is tracking down sites posting advance information about the book and demanding it be pulled. Are they all talk?

yes, they are... and discussing the leaked stuff, is not the same as posting it.

Scholastic has sought subpoenas against various online sites that users have used to disseminate actual scans of the entire book (e.g. Photobucket, Gaiaonline.) I don't believe you'll find a single news article announcing that Scholastic is ordering (or can order) order a mere spoiler, particularly one not quoting text directly from the book, to be removed from any website.

If I was to post a "spoiler" about something that happens in the fifth or sixth book (e.g. "Sirius dies"), the copyright holder couldn't sue me. If I was to post the chapter, whether in text or via scan, in which Sirius dies, then they'd have a far stronger case. Similarly, a spoiler posted about book seven is not actionable as a matter of copyright just because the publisher has not released the book yet. (That said, distributing or reproducing the work without the publisher's permission IS actionable before and after the work's release. E.g. if someone posted here and said, "I have the full text of the work and I'll post a link here so you can all download it," that would definitely be an issue for b77. And, I think the publisher could make a decent case for higher damages against pre-release infringers IF they can prove that those infringers caused higher actual damages (i.e. caused reduced sales by making the work available for free while demand was at its zenith)).

Moreover - and this is an important point - just because a publisher demands that people stop talking about something does not mean that COPYRIGHT demands that people stop talking about something. So, even if Scholastic was going around demanding that we not share the information, "Sirius dies" (or equivalent "factual" information from book 7), that wouldn't automatically mean they had the legal right to make those demands.

Discussing the book isn't infringing on any copyright!!! Jeez.

I am hoping that as soon as the book is released someone here will quickly summarize it AND give away the ending, since I ain't likely to read it.

I read the first one and *shrugs* it was OK. Mildly interesting to an adult. And I am mildly curious about how it all ends. Rowling is not a BAD writer, not by any means. But not good enough to make me want to read more.

So, get on with the spoilers!!! That's why I read this thread.

vison wrote:

Discussing the book isn't infringing on any copyright!!! Jeez.

I am hoping that as soon as the book is released someone here will quickly summarize it AND give away the ending, since I ain't likely to read it.

I read the first one and *shrugs* it was OK. Mildly interesting to an adult. And I am mildly curious about how it all ends. Rowling is not a BAD writer, not by any means. But not good enough to make me want to read more.

So, get on with the spoilers!!! That's why I read this thread.

Here you go...

REALLY BIG ENDING OF THE WHOLE SERIES SPOILERS!!!!









SERIOUSLY




























I'M NOT KIDDING, THIS GIVES EVERYTHING AWAY ABOUT WHERE CHARACTERS END UP!!!!



































spoiler text, just to be nice, highlight to see clearly:

Harry and Ginny get married and have three kids named James, Lily, and Albus Severus...

Ron and Hermione get married and have at least two kids, one of which is named Hugo, I forget the other.

Draco has a son named Scorpius or something like that.

Neville is the Herbology professor at Hogwarts, and Hagrid is still Gamekeeper.

Lupin and Tonks have a kid, but it's unclear if they are still alive... I've not gotten that far in the actual book, the epilogue is a bit vague.

Of Harry's threek kids, Albus is the middle one, and we see him getting on the train to Hogwarts for the first time. He is the only one with Lily and Harry's green eyes. He's worried he might be put in Slytherin, but Harry says that he's named after two headmasters of Hogwarts, one of whom was a Slytherin, and one of the bravest men Harry ever knew, so it would be ok if he ended up there... but if he want's, he can choose Griffindor.

Harry's scar hasn't hurt for 19 years.

That's all the big details I can think of in the Epilogue... I'm still only a little over halfway done with the book... but Wormtail and Dobby just both died... and Voldemort found the most powerful wand in history...
































ok, back to the discussion of copyrights...

Argh...I'm so fucking retarded...I saw the white text and was like "huh" and read a bit of it.

It's my fault though. At least it wasn't huge....well actually it is as I know what happens to Harry. *sigh*

I'm so dumb.

Hal, that is the epilogue that I read. So it's likely legit. Not sure how much I like it.......

Vison, I was pretty unimpressed with the first and second books, but as the series goes on, it gets into more "mid teen" type territory, and becomes much more interesting and enjoyable. You might want to consider giving it another go.

I think TP's discussion of the legal issues sums it up nicely. Adding to it, the booksellers were required to sign contracts not to release early. That's a contract law matter, nothing to do with copyright law. Copyright law forbids republishing the actual book, with certain limitations for parody, etc., which is the grounds for copyright infringement. That would operate before and after the book release. Copyright covers the actual text, and also operates to prevent derivative works (such as fanfic), although most authors/publishers don't go after fanfic).

Discussing what "happens" (spoilers)--well, that's not copyright infringement, and since I never signed a contract with the publisher not to discuss them, they've got no grounds to go after me, or any other poster, or B77 in general.

However, Hal, don't link in to scans of the book pages.

Sigh, I'm sorry Eru

I didn't want that to happen.


I won't link to scanned pages.

I am fully anti-piracy, but I don't like the way they handle these releases, and while I am going at midnight, and will buy the book assuming they have a copy for me... I fail to see the difference in me reading it now, vs being able to check it out from the library on Saturday... other than an arbitrary date that is not that important to me.

I understand people enjoying the midnight parties and all, but I can't afford to stay up all night Friday night reading it... so anyway...

It's not your fault at all. You've done an excellent job at making sure spoilers are clearly labeled. I was just dumb for a second.

Actually I'm kind of afraid to go to a midnight party. Someone else mentioned elsewhere the possibility of people shouting out spoilers.

When I came out of the bookshop for book six, I started reading it at the top of my voice...

You should have seen the looks on peoples faces.

Thanks for the other thread, but I think I'll just skim past Hal's posts, as all my other posts are here.